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Biomedical and Electrical Engineer with interests in information theory, evolution, genetics, abstract mathematics, microbiology, big history, Indieweb, and the entertainment industry including: finance, distribution, representation







@Chronotope I think that @palewire built this into WordPress at some point:


Makes me wish I was in Auckland at the end of the month to chat with @billbennettnz on @WordPress and


@frank Webmentions are an extra generation or two beyond the traditional pingbacks/trackbacks. The receiver actually verifies that the sender is displaying the permalink on a physical page before accepting it, thereby cutting down on spam (there have been no reports of webmention spam in the wild yet.) Webmentions and their structure are also set up to allow the receiving site to better handle display which often includes the name, avatar, and either excerpts, or complete comment. I use them in WordPress and there's generally little if any difference in the display of Webmention replies and comments natively put into the system manually. Webmention also allows additonal types of mentions including likes, bookmarks, reads, listens, etc. to distinguish for context.


Though WP deprecated the Links Manager, it's still in core, and as we all know, they're BIG (maybe too big) on backwards compatibility. I suspect that if they did remove it altogether, they would abstract it out to a standalone plugin.

There are also newer updated plugins like for those who are more concerned.

Either way, I'm hoping that this sort of functionality "comes back to life" on the open web, so perhaps WP will not only bring it back, but put more resources into extending it.


@jackjamieson I just saw your profile pop up on the IW wiki and was excited to see someone else interested in WordPress related readers. There are a few others in the repository that you might want to be aware of including:
* Orbital Feed Reader:
* PressForward:
* Edublogs: (They've got a built in (non-optional) feed reader plugin, but I believe it's proprietary to their platform.)

Though PressForward was built for a tangential use, I think it may be one of the most robust and fully featured in the group. I know it's actively developed and would likely accept pull requests. I've written a bit about using it before here:

I'm curious what your particular itches are in the area, especially if they include adding Woodwind-type interactions to a WordPress based indie reader? This may be one of the biggest pieces missing from the WordPress indie ecosystem.


@khurtwilliams A bunch of us are working on making it all easier in steps, but we're also doing it on a volunteer basis. Some of the key is knowing what it all comprises from a top-down perspective, then knowing what each of the individual pieces are and how they work. Nearly every week there's something new and cool. The key is to figure out which things you find the most useful and valuable and work on those one at a time.

It's a LOT easier now that it was even 8 months ago and will be measurably easier as time goes by. I'm currently writing a book on how to do it all at the level of "IndieWeb with WordPress for Dummies". Ideally it'll be as easy to do as signing up for a Twitter or Facebook account and just going, but we're not quite there yet, but it's getting easier to do the set up without knowing a lot of (or any) code. Hoping into the chat, going to a Homebrew Website Club or IndieWebCamp can be immeasurably helpful as well.

Again, if you want to do a quick conference call/video chat, I'm happy to help you out.


@khurtwilliams POSSE for WordPress can be tricky in part because, compared to most other IndieWeb pieces for WordPress, there are multiple different and varying ways to do it. Using one method could potentially conflict with another depending on how you set things up, though I think these are relatively few.

Your best bet is to hop into the channel of the IndieWeb chat and ask for help, particularly to discuss the specifics of what you'd like to do and what you expect.

In general, the more control and flexibility you want over the display of your POSSE posts, the more set up and work you have to put into it (e.g. SNAP), while the less control you have the more simple the set up (e.g. JetPack Publicize).

Things like publish functionality (or via the Publish plugin) can be more finicky for POSSE copies to silos because is parsing your site for the proper data to publish. (It does have a preview button built in to do manual tests if you need to.) This means that if your WordPress theme doesn't have the correct microformats markup (and often they don't), then you can get spurious results, particularly when it comes to crossposting photos.

Most of the main POSSE plugins and tech are very stable in fact, but they do require that you do a bit of reading and understanding what they do and don't do and what you can and can't control with them. Most all of them have GitHub repositories that you can post issues to and almost all the devs, maintainers, and community are happy to help you out and/or make changes to make the UI and documentation better.

As for backfeed from, it generally requires that the URLs of your post and the syndicated post have matching permalinks to be able to match the two up to send you the webmentions properly. You may have changed your settings, but one piece you appear to be missing is the Syndication Links Plugin which allows you to add u-syndication links to your posts so that knows which ones to send your responses to. Much of this is documented at It also looks like you don't have either an h-card or the appropriate rel-me links on your pages for Twitter, Facebook, et al. is pretty well documented, so you may want to take a look at some of the options there directly. If it helps, you can do a lot of interactive stuff with Bridgy by manually creating posts with specific html in your posts directly. Understanding how to do this can be helpful later when you switch to using a plugin to help automate part of those processes.

I'm sure I've got a few odd posts from ages ago when I tested things out, but when you say "I can also see from some of the failed posts on your website that you may experience the same issues." I'm curious which particular posts you mean? To my knowledge things I intend to syndicate out are currently working as I expect them to (aside from one quirk that occasionally spams the Indieweb chat with micropubbed posts which continually redirect, but that's specific only to me because of some experimental code I've been running). It is the case that I don't always syndicate everything to each and every silo target I could. I do very much pick and choose which things to syndicate to particular networks.

We'll help you get there yet!


Replied to a post on :

For wider adoption, your best bet is probably to pare down WordPress a tad and see what you can make of it. I know David Shanske has a starter version of Underscores with microformats in it already. I think a large portion of the crowd that has gone IndieWeb are using it as their CMS of choice.

The other interesting platform to look at is WithKnown which was built from scratch with IndieWeb specifically in mind.

For adopt-a-bility and reach, you could also look at building things like webmentions into projects like Mastodon which already has some IndieWeb pieces built into it.

You could also try asking in the IndieWeb chat at for lots of additional ideas/thoughts.

Here's a rough chart that may give you some useful ideas too:


@khurtwilliams Kudos for your tenacity! I just saw your notes on my site. The first appears to have been sent first as the webmention. The second two ( and appear to have been input manually in the comment section of my site.

I'm guessing you didn't see (or possibly get the webmention--unless you're careful WordPress can often put webmentions into your spam queue) my other reply the other day that explained the issue. You can find it here ( or here threaded into the commentary, but I'll also manually syndicate my replies to you as well. Hopefully the explanation will solve your mystery.

By the way, once you fixed the URL on your first original webmention, it did come through and is listed in the Mentions subsection at the bottom of the comments: It shows up as a mention instead of a reply, because the URL that fed through was the raw one (i.e. without a class in the body of your response). If you fix the emoji portion and click save that URL will have a u-in-reply-to which should cause your response to show up and be parsed properly as a reply instead of just a vanilla mention).

If you'd like to discuss the subtleties of any of this in person, feel free to catch me on my phone number on my homepage. :)


Khürt, I've figured it out then. I'd seen the issue I initially thought you were having a few dozen times.

Your actual issue is far more subtle, but is a known issue with WordPress. Because the title of my original post contains the glasses emoji 👓 (indicating it's a "read" post, or something that I read and made some sort of comment on), WordPress "eats" or filters out all of the data you're trying to save. If you put the URL in again and then retrieve the data, but this time delete out just that pesky emoji, it should save properly as you expect it. Let me know if that doesn't work.

I've noticed the issue before and reported it officially here:


Aaron, I suspect that the visible code <span class='p-author h-card'>Aaron Davis</span> which appears on your byline on your site is the result of the uf2 plugin conflicting with your theme, which already has microformats baked into it. You should be able to disable that plugin without any ill effects for any other functionality while simultaneously getting rid of that visible span. If that's not the case, you might want to file an issue at


Khürt, a webmention wasn't sent to my site because the URL for my post doesn't appear on your page. The URL you've wrapped around my name in your post is the permalink for your post instead. The better option is to put my URL into the URL field in the Post Kinds meta box in the admin UI as seen here:

This will cause the URL to be wrapped with the appropriate microformat class "u-in-reply-to" that will trigger your webmention plugin and send your response to me. Without my URL on your page, the webmention plugin won't send me one, and then on my end, my page won't accept a webmention if your page doesn't have my URL on it.


Khürt, I'm a little reticent to use some of the older code in the OStatus plugin (suite) as well, but almost all of it was written by Matthias Pfefferle whose code I trust. He self-dogfoods almost all of it himself in addition to much of the codebase for other IW WordPress plugins. I suspect all of it works as advertised and I've heard he's continuing to work on many of these particular parts. The Salmon plugin may look "old" but I suspect it's because it's an older standard that really hasn't changed and thus doesn't need regular updates.

The tough part about all of these options though is that they are all somewhat fragmented and only cover bits and pieces of these bigger networks. They've still got some time to "bake", but the movement on them and their current capabilities are pretty impressive.


@kimberlyhirsh You might appreciate this while you're playing around with notes and bookmarks using Post Kinds